37 replies to this topic

[Jetset Quasar]

title says it all,m and yes a Stone Rhino would be the clan counterpart to an Anni

[Khobai]

the direwolf is the counterpart to the annihilator

its just not very good.


direwolf should get +20/+15/+15 structure quirks for its CT/STs

and the direwolf-C variant for ECM (but the ECM CT should give a smaller structure bonus)

it still wouldnt be as good as the annihilator, but it would be better than it is now.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Jetset Quasar]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

the direwolf is the counterpart to the annihilator

its just not very good.


direwolf should get +20/+15/+15 structure quirks for its CT/STs

and the direwolf-C variant for ECM

No it isnt the direwolf is the counter part of an atlas "Its speed and armor protection matches that of an Atlas" -Sarna

Edited by Dawn Treader, 19 December 2017 - 03:56 PM.

[FupDup]

Dawn Treader, on 19 December 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

No it isnt the direwolf is the counter part of an atlas "Its speed and armor protection matches that of an Atlas" -Sarna

The Atlas is a beefy brawler. The Dire Whale is a ranged gunboat.

That Sarna description doesn't really help much.

[Khobai]

Quote

No it isnt the direwolf is the counter part of an atlas "Its speed and armor protection matches that of an Atlas" -Sarna

the direwolf is nothing like an atlas

atlases dont use 4+ ballistic weapons. atlases arnt capped at 300 engines. atlases use missiles weapons and direwolves dont. they have literally nothing in common other than both being 100 tons.

the atlas has more in common with a kodiak spirit bear than a direwolf.

the direwolf has the most in common with the annihilator

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Jetset Quasar]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

the direwolf is nothing like an atlas

atlases dont use 4 ballistic weapons. atlases arnt capped at 300 engines. direwolf doesnt use missiles weapons either.

the atlas has more in common with a kodiak spirit bear than a direwolf.

"but it has superior potential firepower with fifty and a half tons of free pod space for weapons and equipment" -Sarna

Edited by Dawn Treader, 19 December 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[Jetset Quasar]

FupDup, on 19 December 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

The Atlas is a beefy brawler. The Dire Whale is a ranged gunboat.

That Sarna description doesn't really help much.

Alt. Config. S The S configuration is intended for the close confines of urban and jungle warfare. The S configurations primary weapon is a massive LB-X Autocannon/20 which is capable of disabling most light and medium 'Mechs in a single blast. This is backed up by a single Large Pulse Laser to provide some long range firepower should the Dire Wolf S be caught in the open. Additional short range firepower is provided by five Medium Pulse Lasers and two Streak SRM-4 launchers. Two Anti-Personnel Pods and two Machine Guns provide exceptional anti infantry capabilities. The Sconfiguration has added mobility with three jump jets allowing it to jump up to ninety meters" Dire isnt purely range, a lot of configs use range cause its a decent range platform

[Khobai]

Quote

"but it has superior potential firepower with fifty and a half tons of free pod space for weapons and equipment" -Sarna

but even their loadouts are nothing alike. the atlas uses brawling loadouts. the direwolf uses mid to long range loadouts. the atlas uses splat weapons like MRMs/UAC20 and not ballistic spam. the atlas is also much faster.

again they have nothing in common other than both being 100 tons. the kodiak is more analogous to the atlas than the direwolf is (kodiak spirit bear is a brawler like the atlas)

and if your point is that the direwolf is better than the atlas, yes we know the atlas is bad. theres a whole other topic discussing how bad it is.

but the annihilator is better than both the direwolf and the atlas. the annihilator is at the level all 100 tonners should be at.

Quote

Alt. Config. S The S configuration is intended for the close confines of urban and jungle warfare. The S configurations primary weapon is a massive LB-X Autocannon/20 which is capable of disabling most light and medium 'Mechs in a single blast. This is backed up by a single Large Pulse Laser to provide some long range firepower should the Dire Wolf S be caught in the open. Additional short range firepower is provided by five Medium Pulse Lasers and two Streak SRM-4 launchers. Two Anti-Personnel Pods and two Machine Guns provide exceptional anti infantry capabilities. The Sconfiguration has added mobility with three jump jets allowing it to jump up to ninety meters" Dire isnt purely range, a lot of configs use range cause its a decent range platform

thats like pointing out the atlas-K and saying the atlas is a long range mech.

its just laughably wrong.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 04:13 PM.

[FupDup]

Dawn Treader, on 19 December 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Alt. Config. S The S configuration is intended for the close confines of urban and jungle warfare. The S configurations primary weapon is a massive LB-X Autocannon/20 which is capable of disabling most light and medium 'Mechs in a single blast. This is backed up by a single Large Pulse Laser to provide some long range firepower should the Dire Wolf S be caught in the open. Additional short range firepower is provided by five Medium Pulse Lasers and two Streak SRM-4 launchers. Two Anti-Personnel Pods and two Machine Guns provide exceptional anti infantry capabilities. The Sconfiguration has added mobility with three jump jets allowing it to jump up to ninety meters" Dire isnt purely range, a lot of configs use range cause its a decent range platform

Most of those weapons reach out to at least the medium range bracket, and I was mostly referring to the MWO-role of the chassis.

[Jetset Quasar]

what boggles the mind is that your clanners arguing against getting a big fuckoff mech like the IS have

[Valdarion Silarius]

Not really sure why they are derailing with a debate of the Annihilator vs Dire Wolf. To answer the OP, yes I would absolutely love the Stone Rhino. The 3 is my favorite variant since it's like my pet mech prime but on steroids. Since the civil war tech, there would be more variants to add to the game as well.

16 tons of standard armor, a standard fusion engine, and enough heatsinks to combat most of the mech's generated heat and the Stone Rhino battle mech would be a tough nut to crack. I've always like it's development history as well. I find it funny that khans of Smoke Jaguar are probably not aware of the inspiration from where their scientists borrowed the initial design from.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 19 December 2017 - 04:35 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

The primary variant isn't much to look at, but Stone Rhino has some scary configs, even before hardpoint inflation. It smokes every 100 tonner we have right now, on paper. All with a 360 engine cap.

STR-1 - 2B, 3E
STR-2 - 2B, 6E
STR-3 - 5E, 2M

STR-4 - 6B, 4E, 4M
STR-5 - 4B, 6E, XL400
STR-6 - 15E, XL400

Looks like the potential Reinforcement pack would be super strong. *cough*

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 19 December 2017 - 04:43 PM.

[Bombast]

Some clanners are absolutely obsessed with the Space {Godwin's Law} Mech Maus, and I'm not sure why.

As for the Panzer VIII Stone Rhino itself, I don't think you'd find it any more comparable to the Annihilator than the Dire Wolf. In fact, it'll likely just be a battlemech version of the Dire Wolf, trading slow speed and massive hard point counts with going faster and bigger guns in fewer hard points.

Arnold The Governator, on 19 December 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Not really sure why they are derailing with a debate of the Annihilator vs Dire Wolf.

The topic is literally 'IS got the Annihilator, so the Clans deserve there version, the Stone Rhino.' Arguing that claim is not a derail, its right on track.

[Trenchbird]

Dawn Treader, on 19 December 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

what boggles the mind is that your clanners arguing against getting a big fuckoff mech like the IS have

Right, because the KDK-3 was never a 'big fuckoff mech', and neither was a Spirit Bear. (Obviously both pre-nerf).

Look, I'm not saying I thought either were exceptionally OP, much like I don't feel the too-slow Annihilator even stands up to most Clan assaults in typical MWO engagement, Dire Wolves notwithstanding. Even then, I'd say the Dire even stands a good chance of winning a brawl or snipefest by virtue of Clan weaponry, even without exceptionally good quirks.

Bombast, on 19 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Some clanners are absolutely obsessed with the Space {Godwin's Law} Mech Maus, and I'm not sure why.

As for the Panzer VIII Stone Rhino itself, I don't think you'd find it any more comparable to the Annihilator than the Dire Wolf. In fact, it'll likely just be a battlemech version of the Dire Wolf, trading slow speed and massive hard point counts with going faster and bigger guns in fewer hard points.

Basically, this. I don't even think it'd be useful beyond having better-than-or-similar-to-Dire mounts and more configurability, completely eclipsing the Dire Wolf even more than the Kodiak does. Same problem with the Bane/Kraken.

Edited by Catten Hart, 19 December 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[N0ni]

Bombast, on 19 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Some clanners are absolutely obsessed with the Space {Godwin's Law} Mech Maus, and I'm not sure why.

It really all depends on how PGI would design it. If based off sarna with a more flat side design, then yeah i can agree with the Maus. If they decide to go with more rounded sides it'd be more like a Panzerkampfwagen E-100. As for the mech itself i could care less (but for tanks i'd definitely go with the E-100, just because of the 15 cm L/38.).

Edited by N0ni, 19 December 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Bombast, on 19 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

The topic is literally 'IS got the Annihilator, so the Clans deserve there version, the Stone Rhino.' Arguing that claim is not a derail, its right on track.

I don't see Dire Wolf anywhere in the OP's title. But whatever floats your boat I suppose.

[Internal Obedience XIII-omega]

The Hauptmann is a direct counterpart to the Direwolf. And the history to the Stone Rhino... ask Amaris. IMO, there is no connection to the Annihilator leading to anything. While the Stone Rhino and Annihilator almost seem similar, there are no direct ties between those two or any for that matter.

[Bombast]

N0ni, on 19 December 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

It really all depends on how PGI would design it. If based off sarna with a more flat side design, then yeah i can agree with the Maus. If they decide to go with more rounded sides it'd be more like a Panzerkampfwagen E-100. As for the mech itself i could care less (but for tanks i'd definitely go with the E-100, just because of the 15 cm L/38.).

The reference has nothing to do with its appearance - It's lore is basically the same as the real life Maus, sans a general shutting it down because the idea was beyond stupid.

[Shadowomega1]

Well these are all the 100 ton Clan Mechs before 3069

Bane (Kraken), Imp, Jupiter, Scylla, Stone Rhino/Behemoth, Tomahawk.

Out of those the closest ones to the Annihilator, would be the Jupiter, and the Scylla. The Base version of the Jupiter has 4 UAC 5s though it does mount 2 LRM 15s, its second version switches to the UAC 5s to UAC 10, and the third goes with 2 UAC 10s and 2 HAG 30s. The Scylla also favors brawling with Scylla 2/3 mounting HAGs.

The Bane is interesting as it mounts 10 UAC 2s and 4 Machine guns in its prime config, second config with 4 UAC 10s with 14 tons worth of ammo, the third config is missile support to the max with 8 LRM 15s and a one shot Streak 4, the fourth config is mixed range with 2 UAC 20s 3 ATM 6 and 1 ERLL, with the final version being a test bed version with Endo Composite, Laser Heat Sinks, Reflective armor, CASE II, cRAC 2, and streak LRMs 10s.

The base build for the Stone Rhino/Behemoth favors fire support with its 2 Gauss Rifles, 2 LPL, 1 spl. The second build runs with 2 HLL, 2 HML, 2 HSL in each arm with rear mounted 2HML. Version 3 mounts 2 LPL, 2 AMT 9, 2 ER Micro Lasers. Version 4 mounts 4 LRM 10s, 2 UAC 10s, 4 ERML, and 4 Machine gun arrays. Version 5 mounts an 400 XL engine, with 4 LBX 5s, and 6 ERML. Finally Version 6 mounts 14 MPLs and a single ERSL. So much for comparing this mech to the Annihilator.

The Imp however has more in common with the walking trash can called the Urbanmech than just its looks, as most of its weapons are mixed type. Some how the artist made it kind of look like the Imp shot itself in the head with this pic.



The Tomahawk is a Stormcrow that spent a few years in the Gym and on steroids.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 19 December 2017 - 05:43 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Shadowomega1, on 19 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

Version 3 mounts 2 LPL, 2 AMT 9, 2 ER Micro Lasers.

Actually version 3 mounts 4 Large Pulse lasers, 2 ATM 9's, and 2 ER Micro lasers in the rear of the mech. Which is another reason why the Stone Rhino would be an interesting mech to implement to the game if PGI could pull it off. It would be the first mech in game to have rear mounted weaponry, which either could be done either an AI automatic process or a rear camera with it's own special hotkeys. I would love to see how lights would react to this.

Edit: Come to think about it, I think I would have to swap those 2 ER Micro Lasers out for a pair of flamers. Just for the Lulz.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 19 December 2017 - 06:00 PM.